Comments on: Why are Sheeps in Bathtubs? (And Other Questions) http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/ News, Info, Photos and Blogs From the Land of Blue Sky Fri, 03 Sep 2010 04:03:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Maral http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-9608 Maral Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:00:06 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-9608 Hello Bernie, My name is Maral Bat-Amgalan. I was born about the same time that the Christian church was started in Erdenet. My mom is a friend of Brian Hogan. He still has a video of my birth. Right now i live in the States. When i was in Mongolia, i use to go to a Catholic church in UB. I visited Mongolia in the summer of 2008 and a lot has changed. There are many new churches and many people attend them. My aunt Amarjargal, lives in Erdenet and she goes to church every week and so does her friends, family and relatives. I must say, in a way i was shocked. This summer i will be going to Mongolia again, but this time, i would like to do what i can to help you guys. P.S. my email is memaral_94@yahoo.com Hello Bernie,
My name is Maral Bat-Amgalan. I was born about the same time that the Christian church was started in Erdenet. My mom is a friend of Brian Hogan. He still has a video of my birth. Right now i live in the States. When i was in Mongolia, i use to go to a Catholic church in UB. I visited Mongolia in the summer of 2008 and a lot has changed. There are many new churches and many people attend them. My aunt Amarjargal, lives in Erdenet and she goes to church every week and so does her friends, family and relatives. I must say, in a way i was shocked. This summer i will be going to Mongolia again, but this time, i would like to do what i can to help you guys.

P.S. my email is memaral_94@yahoo.com

]]> By: Terry http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6798 Terry Fri, 16 May 2008 16:51:47 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6798 It is good to see the interaction going on here. My first comment is that Mongolia, like the rest of the world, is changing with so many people moving to the cities. Bernie, with your love of good coffee, you may want to look into getting the StarBucks franchise for Mongolia. It's a natural for you! And there is the question of the mile wide inch deep church. If this is indeed true in Mongolia, it is by no means unique. The worst example of this is probably Rwanda where Christian on Christian genocide was seen. The underlying question seems to be how do we plant a church that can reproduce without bringing in a lot of Western baggage. It is going to take balance and a lot of prayer. God bless you Bernie. And you too Brian. Terry It is good to see the interaction going on here. My first comment is that Mongolia, like the rest of the world, is changing with so many people moving to the cities.

Bernie, with your love of good coffee, you may want to look into getting the StarBucks franchise for Mongolia. It’s a natural for you!

And there is the question of the mile wide inch deep church. If this is indeed true in Mongolia, it is by no means unique. The worst example of this is probably Rwanda where Christian on Christian genocide was seen.

The underlying question seems to be how do we plant a church that can reproduce without bringing in a lot of Western baggage. It is going to take balance and a lot of prayer.

God bless you Bernie.

And you too Brian.

Terry

]]> By: bernie http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6726 bernie Fri, 09 May 2008 01:03:59 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6726 Coffee and high speed Internet (with, of course, varying degrees of consistency!). The times indeed, they are a changing... Coffee and high speed Internet (with, of course, varying degrees of consistency!). The times indeed, they are a changing…

]]> By: Brian Hogan http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6725 Brian Hogan Fri, 09 May 2008 00:42:10 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6725 Wow! You can get coffee in UB now! (Just kidding! I know that things have changed) "Probably just one sentence that rubbed a little … because of the attitude that others take and not your own. UB is not a glamorous place to live by any stretch of the imagination. But it’s full of lost people and a very adolescent church." I don't share that attitude, and we found Erdenet far easier to live in than UB. We did a year in UB and our hats are off to you! Brian Wow! You can get coffee in UB now! (Just kidding! I know that things have changed)
“Probably just one sentence that rubbed a little … because of the attitude that others take and not your own. UB is not a glamorous place to live by any stretch of the imagination. But it’s full of lost people and a very adolescent church.”

I don’t share that attitude, and we found Erdenet far easier to live in than UB. We did a year in UB and our hats are off to you!
Brian

]]> By: bernie http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6724 bernie Fri, 09 May 2008 00:33:03 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6724 I could not possibly agree with you more, on this point, my friend. I feel that we're having to 'undo' a lot in order to get to that point. Amen and amen. I could not possibly agree with you more, on this point, my friend.

I feel that we’re having to ‘undo’ a lot in order to get to that point.

Amen and amen.

]]> By: Brian Hogan http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6723 Brian Hogan Fri, 09 May 2008 00:26:52 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6723 Another thought: On evangelism - our team found that the Mongolians were gifted natural evangelists. Indeed, after the initial 14 disciples, we foreigners didn't need to do ANY evangelism. The believers completely took the ball and ran with it. I think that something (imported methods?) is inhibiting that natural gift in what you are observing now in UB. Maybe a refocusing on reaching those already in the circle of the disciple's relationships, rather than stranger evangelism. The evangelism modeled by Western (or Eastern!) missionaries tends to be less-effective and and non-reproducible when compared to the oikos evangelism employed in the New Testament. More blessings, Brian Hogan Another thought:
On evangelism – our team found that the Mongolians were gifted natural evangelists. Indeed, after the initial 14 disciples, we foreigners didn’t need to do ANY evangelism. The believers completely took the ball and ran with it. I think that something (imported methods?) is inhibiting that natural gift in what you are observing now in UB. Maybe a refocusing on reaching those already in the circle of the disciple’s relationships, rather than stranger evangelism. The evangelism modeled by Western (or Eastern!) missionaries tends to be less-effective and and non-reproducible when compared to the oikos evangelism employed in the New Testament.
More blessings,
Brian Hogan

]]> By: bernie http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6722 bernie Fri, 09 May 2008 00:14:07 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6722 Thanks all for your comments on this. In particular, Brian, I thank you for taking the time to read and comment. Your family's courage and pioneer spirit paved the way for a church in Mongolia today. You guys are awesome! I recommend your book to anyone who is interested in the work here - and particularly for those called to serve here. Hope you sell a million copies! I appreciate your recognition of different callings. I may be more sensitive to that issue, because I find at times that those of us who stay in the capital get placed into a sort of 'second rate' category by a lot of people, because we're not going out into the countryside. Probably just one sentence that rubbed a little ... because of the attitude that others take and not your own. UB is not a glamorous place to live by any stretch of the imagination. But it's full of lost people and a very adolescent church. That said, I was just in Erdenet and Bulgan last week - and met some beautiful believers there ... fruit of your sacrifice, in my mind. Next time you're passing through UB look us up ... I'd love to grab a cup of coffee with you, if you have the time. Thanks for stopping by! Thanks all for your comments on this. In particular, Brian, I thank you for taking the time to read and comment. Your family’s courage and pioneer spirit paved the way for a church in Mongolia today. You guys are awesome! I recommend your book to anyone who is interested in the work here – and particularly for those called to serve here. Hope you sell a million copies!

I appreciate your recognition of different callings. I may be more sensitive to that issue, because I find at times that those of us who stay in the capital get placed into a sort of ‘second rate’ category by a lot of people, because we’re not going out into the countryside. Probably just one sentence that rubbed a little … because of the attitude that others take and not your own. UB is not a glamorous place to live by any stretch of the imagination. But it’s full of lost people and a very adolescent church.

That said, I was just in Erdenet and Bulgan last week – and met some beautiful believers there … fruit of your sacrifice, in my mind.

Next time you’re passing through UB look us up … I’d love to grab a cup of coffee with you, if you have the time.

Thanks for stopping by!

]]> By: Brian Hogan http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6721 Brian Hogan Thu, 08 May 2008 22:26:57 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6721 Bernie, Thanks for the advert and your thoughts. I wanted to briefly address a few of your thoughtful observations from the front. I am sorry that the section about our team being guided to Erdenet came across as an indictment of those working in the capital. You are right. Reaching UB is vital. My point was that to do the things God had called us to do we had to get away from all of the "other men's foundations" that were being laid down in UB. Those Western/Korean churches you speak of there were precisely what we need to have some distance from if solid NT principles of CP were to be tried. The mother church in Erdenet is smaller than when we left but much of this is due to the seminomadic nature of the Mongols and the many other churches that have been planted in that city since. The numbers are still high city wide when you consider all the Erdenet churches, and the growth of our movement continues through the daughter and granddaughter churches, etc. Bless you, Brian Hogan Bernie,
Thanks for the advert and your thoughts.
I wanted to briefly address a few of your thoughtful observations from the front.
I am sorry that the section about our team being guided to Erdenet came across as an indictment of those working in the capital. You are right. Reaching UB is vital. My point was that to do the things God had called us to do we had to get away from all of the “other men’s foundations” that were being laid down in UB. Those Western/Korean churches you speak of there were precisely what we need to have some distance from if solid NT principles of CP were to be tried.
The mother church in Erdenet is smaller than when we left but much of this is due to the seminomadic nature of the Mongols and the many other churches that have been planted in that city since. The numbers are still high city wide when you consider all the Erdenet churches, and the growth of our movement continues through the daughter and granddaughter churches, etc.
Bless you,
Brian Hogan

]]> By: John Schmidt http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6720 John Schmidt Thu, 08 May 2008 20:41:31 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6720 I found the book fascinating and also insightful as to what different perspectives can be had by two different missionary teams. Having been in UB, I see the tremendous influence that is possible from reaching the next generation flocking to the city. You are exactly right in stating that better contextualization of spiritual, principles, truths and concepts must be developed for the unique Mongolian mindest. What you wrote is just as applicable to the American church. We have not always kept abreast as to how to effectively make disciple-making-disciples in our current cultural context. I found the book fascinating and also insightful as to what different perspectives can be had by two different missionary teams. Having been in UB, I see the tremendous influence that is possible from reaching the next generation flocking to the city. You are exactly right in stating that better contextualization of spiritual, principles, truths and concepts must be developed for the unique Mongolian mindest. What you wrote is just as applicable to the American church. We have not always kept abreast as to how to effectively make disciple-making-disciples in our current cultural context.

]]> By: bernie http://www.remembermongolia.org/2008/03/29/why-are-sheeps-in-bathtubs-and-other-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-6578 bernie Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:03:52 +0000 http://www.remembermongolia.org/?p=159#comment-6578 Jeff - good to hear from you, man! Praying for you guys and looking forward to seeing baby Mikayla! We'll definitely need to make plans to journey out to Bayanhonger! Looking forward to that... Jeff – good to hear from you, man! Praying for you guys and looking forward to seeing baby Mikayla! We’ll definitely need to make plans to journey out to Bayanhonger! Looking forward to that…

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